The other night I was at a show at a local bar…I mean church…I mean…no it was definitely a bar, seeing a friend’s band play, and the mix was LOUD. Like, uncomfortably loud. I pulled out the dB meter app on my iPhone (not super accurate, but close enough) and it was reading 112 dB on average during loud choruses. Luckily I had earplugs, but it got me thinking: how loud is too loud? And what do we as church engineers say when people tell us that the mix is too loud?
On a technical level, it’s pretty easy to say what’s “too loud”. The National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) has done research to determine exposure times at various decibel levels that can lead to hearing damage. Their data tells us that around 106 dB (A-weighted) for 3.75 minutes will lead to possible hearing damage. That’s pretty loud, but I’ve definitely heard some church environments (especially camps/retreats) hit that level regularly. Above that, you get to a mere 2 minutes of exposure at 109 dB and less than a minute of exposure is acceptable at 112 dB. So…I’m really glad I brought those ear plugs.
In purely the technical sense, going over 106 starts to get into the territory of “too loud” for the average ear to handle for the length of a typical song, but there’s a lot more to it than that. For on thing, it’s rare that a song is going to be that loud for the whole duration of the song. Contemporary worship music usually has a lot of dynamics, with lots of different parts that are soft and loud. So it’s unlikely that you’re going to hurt anyone if you peak at 106 for a few seconds at the loudest part of the chorus, because after that loud chorus there’s going to be a softer verse or instrumental that drops the dB level back down again. There’s a lot of give and take when it comes to loudness.
But let’s talk about what really matters: your congregation’s PERCEPTION of loudness. You could be running at 91 dB, which on a technical level is perfectly safe to listen to for 2 hours straight…but if you try to pull that level with a congregation full of older people, you’ll be kicked out of that church faster than you can make a joke about turning down their hearing aids.
My personal “safe level” for the churches that I mix at (which are contemporary, medium-to-mega churches playing modern worship music) is from 92 to 98 dB depending on what it feels/sound like in the room, and what the congregation is used to. Lower than 92 dB, and the mix usually starts to feel flat and lifeless, but higher than 98 dB, and you usually start getting complaints from the people near the speakers.
So what do we do when we get a complaint about it being “too loud”?
The answer is: it depends. If the complaint comes from the pastor, or from the tech director, I immediately turn the mix down. There’s is ZERO room for argument when the request comes from them. You might be perfectly within the safety levels defined by NIOSH, but if the pastor says it’s too loud, then it’s too loud.
But what about the other times, like when a random congregation member comes back to the board and says I’m running too loud? This is when we as sound engineers have to be very objective. There’s definitely a chance that I may have become caught up in the moment and have pushed things louder than they should be. So the very first thing I do is to check my dB meter. If I find that I actually am loud, I’ll pull down the mix a little and thank the congregation member for telling me. That’s just the right thing to do. But, if I REALLY, objectively don’t think it’s too loud, I’ll politely tell the congregation member “Thank you, I appreciate your input, if you’ll come stop by the sound booth after service, I’ll be more than happy to talk with you”. That’s my line, every single time. Feel free to use it.
If they actually do come back after service (which is exceptionally rare) I’ll explain to them that I’ve been hired by the church to provide a certain level of sound reinforcement that is compatible to what thousands of churches across the country do on a Sunday morning, and that what they were hearing was absolutely not damaging anyone’s ears. Usually, that’s enough to satisfy them, but if not, I’ll refer them to the tech director or a pastor on staff for follow-up, but I’ve almost never had that happen.
Hopefully, this has provided you with some insight on what volume is “too loud”. It’s a complicated subject, but it’s an important one that needs to be addressed. Above all, trust your ears. If it feels like a good volume, it probably is.
-WORSHIP SOUND GUY
As always, we want to help you become a better live sound engineer! So if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to us at worshipsoundguy@worshipsoundguy.com
*All figures quoted above are based on the “A weighting” system of sound measurement, and all information is based on my experience – none of the information contained within this blog should be taken as scientific, and I take no responsibility for its use. 11 Likes
Can you tell me OSHA’s legal limit for a work environment?
Great question! So OSHA requires employers to implement a hearing conservation program when noise exposure is at or above 85 decibels averaged over 8 working hours, or an 8-hour time-weighted average (TWA). Hearing conservation programs strive to prevent initial occupational hearing loss, preserve and protect remaining hearing, and equip workers with the knowledge and hearing protection devices necessary to safeguard themselves. You can find out some more info about it on the OSHA website at https://www.osha.gov/noise
When the music keeps people in their cars till it’s over because of heart health issues or causes head aches, is that loving and kind and necessary?
Definitely not! The mix should never be discouraging people from coming in to the auditorium/sanctuary. Usually I’ve found if it’s that extreme of a case, there’s more going on than just “it’s too loud”. Typically there are issues with stage volume, speaker placement, harshness or poor EQ choices. So there’s a lot to unpack there, but the short answer is no, the mix definitely shouldn’t be discouraging people from participating in service.
How would you suggest a congregational member approach the staff about this issue?
I cannot tolerate the loud thumping bass drum – I literally start having panic symptoms. Note: I am not “old,” I used to be a pianist in a church that played modern music, and I am musically literate (can read and sing parts). It used to not be this loud. I am at a loss as to what to do.
I miss being able to hear the congregation sing over the musicians.
Hi Rebecca! That’s a great question. It’s tough to say for sure without hearing what’s going on. I’d politely ask other people in the congregation if they notice an issue with the volume of the kick too. That way you can see if it’s bothering everyone or not.
After that, I’d simply suggest a polite conversation with whoever is in charge of tech for your church. I guarantee that absolutely no audio engineer out there WANTS to cause panic from the volume of their kick. If it’s an issue for a lot of people, it’s likely that you’ll be able to have a great conversation with them and can get some more information about why they’re running the mix in the style that they are, and potentially what could be done to make everyone’s experience better.
I’d also encourage you to move around the room a little bit. There’s definitely a good chance you’re sitting in an area where the bass is louder than in other sections of the room. You might be able to move your position slightly to somewhere that’s a more manageable volume.
I hope that goes well for you!
-Johnny
Great Article! Thank you for sharing this is a very informative post, and looking forward to the latest one!
Thanks so much! Glad it was helpful for you!
I ran sound at my church today. Dbs were between 89-94. We had a couple congregants complain, but all church admin said it was great and want me to do sound again!
More people engaged in worship than usual because the music was loud enough that they weren’t self conscious of their singing.
Thank you for this article!
That’s awesome! The high 80s to low 90s is a good spot to compromise. You usually won’t get too many complaints, and like you said, it loud enough where it fills out the room and encourages more engagement. Glad it worked for you!
-Johnny
Very objective! Thank you so much!
So glad it was helpful!
I have someone in our church that said the music is to loud he said it was over 100 dm on his laptop and he was sitting about 50 feet from the speakers towards the rear of the church when I took out the meter it was running between 82 to 87 dm and would peak once in a while to 90 but it was never over 90. The sound with no one talking is 47 he thinks the music needs to be in the 60 something range I think it would be impossible to have professional good music in the 60 or 70 range what do you think
Hey Tom! Yeah, there are a lot of considerations here. The main one that I’d be curious about is what settings he was using to make that 100+ db measurement. I’m betting he was on a “fast response” which will always register very high and is not a good way to measure whether an environment is too loud. If it’s something that comes up again, it would probably be worth having a conversation with him about how to properly measure SPL levels and to assure him that he’s not in any danger. A mix that’s in the mid 80’s should be totally fine and should not pose any significant risk to long term hearing.
how do we position/place speakers in church
That’s a big question! We go into detail about it in our Sound Guy Essentials courses which you can check out at https://worshipsoundguy.com/sound-guy-essentials/
What are some good tools for measuring loudness in a church in order to make the necessary adjustments?
Thank you.
For basic measurements, I really like the Decibel X app for iOS/Android. It’s easy to use and fairly accurate.
Greetings,
Have you researched professional organizations such as American Academy of Audiology, American Society of Pedeatric Otolaryngology, American Academy of Otolaryngology, and their recommendations how loud music is to be in order to prevent hearing loss or ear disorders?
BTW, it personally bothers me to see babies and toddlers being exposed to loud music.
Finally, what does it mean when you say "feels flat" when sound is lowered?
Thank you.
Hi Maria! Great questions, I personally have only looked into exposure times for adults according to OSHA and NIOSH. I agree that babies and toddlers have a lower threshold for what is safe and should not be in prolonged loud environments, but I haven’t looked at exactly what those limits might be.
As far as feeling flat, I generally find that comment comes up when the volume from the stage starts to really compete with the volume from the PA system. Like if you’re hearing drums or guitar amps from on stage louder than they are in the PA system, it can sound sort of “smeared” and unclear because you’re hearing it from two places at once (on stage and through the PA) at slightly different times.
Basically when you reach a loudness level as Stooges, it's too loud ^^
Probably true haha!
I just read that around 70 decibels is the range that is normal for extended exposure. Yet all of the "church" sites smugly declare that 90 is fine, with some bursts of 100. I don't understand the different data being put out by the worship leaders online. It doesn't fit what testing companies are saying, and I am being to suspect that many worship leaders simply prefer loud music, or have hearing loss and need it loud.
Hi Susan! Johnny from Worship Sound Guy here. I wanted to take a moment to reach out and have a dialog around loudness that I hope will bring some clarity and peace of mind with the volume levels at church.
First, I want to say thank you so much for commenting! It means a lot when people care enough to comment. Loudness is something that we should all be aware of and concerned about, and I’m glad that it’s something that you care about.
Second, I do hope that my blog didn’t come across as smug. That is certainly not my intention. The blog was designed to be realistic, backed by science, and accurate.
So, I think the first place to start is with how we measure loudness. There are a lot of different standards and scales that are used in various applications but for our purposes (and if you were to use a decibel app on your phone to check your own measurements) we need to use “A Weighted, Slow Response”.
I frequently get comments where someone is like “my church is running 110db and I’m afraid we’re all getting hearing damage!” but it turns out they had their decibel meter in the wrong mode and it was giving an inaccurate reading that was too high or too low.
Next, we need to talk about exposure. Exposure is everything when it comes to loudness safety. Our ears are designed to protect us from loud sounds, but they can’t protect us for very long. That’s why someone can be close to a gunshot or some other extremely loud noise and not immediately go deaf, but if that volume is sustained for too long, damage will occur.
The best and most accurate resource for loudness limits and potential impact are the organizations OSHA and NIOSH. OSHA is the “Occupational Safety and Health Administration” in the USA, and NIOSH is the “National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health” which is part of the CDC and they’ve done a ton of research on this topic and they’re a great resource.
They give some helpful example of what various decibel levels sound like.
For example, 70db (A weighted) is about the sound of background talking in a classroom or coffee shop. So, like you said, that’s perfectly safe for prolonged exposure, but it’s helpful to understand just how quiet that actually is compared to any sort of live music.
Now, on to what OSHA and NIOSH recommend as far as exposure times go. NIOSH has an excellent PDF on this topic with a chart that you can check out at https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/6376 . It shows what safe exposure times are for various decibel levels.
As you can see, you can go for 25 hours and 24 minutes at a constant 80 decibels before it would be unsafe. 80 db is about the sound of a busy downtown street, which is pretty loud, but you can still be there continuously for more than a day before you’d be in any sort of danger.
Moving on to the levels we might find in a church, let’s say your in a fairly loud contemporary church that runs at 90db. That level is safe for up to 2 hours and 31 minutes before any damage might occur. That’s MUCH longer than any worship services would be, so that level is, in fact, going to be safe in most instances.
Moving on we can see that even if the church ran at 95db it’s still safe for 47 minutes until we’re in any sort of danger (which is longer than most music in church would be).
Now, the REALLY important factor here is that these numbers are talking about continuous exposure. That means it’s that loud volume all the time. But the reality is that music (especially worship music) has loud and soft parts. At our church (and most churches I’ve worked with) the loud parts might get to 93-95db for a big chorus, but most of the song is much lower than than (88-92) which is safe for multiple hours continuously.
To demonstrate, there’s a very helpful app called “Decibel X” that you can download for your phone. It has a decibel meter built in (make sure it’s set to A-weighted, slow) but it also has an exposure meter which registers how long you were exposed to different volumes and what your total exposure is.
I’ve had that exposure meter up and running for the entire day (rehearsal and three services at my home church) and typically we only spend around 8 to 10 minutes throughout the whole day at that 95db level. The vast majority is below 90 (especially when you factor in that most of the service is speaking which will be significantly more quite than music).
This email has gone on a little longer than I intended it to haha, but this is something I’m passionate about discussing and I want to make sure that people don’t feel as though they’re being exposed to something unsafe when they may not be.
I’m also more than happy to answer any additional questions that you might have. Church should never be a place where anyone feels unsafe, especially because of volume, and I want to help both churches and congregants feel safe in these environments.
Thanks again so much for the comment, I really appreciate the insight and look forward to hearing from you.